Opinion. Not Heresy

Official word on the subject of "Cyprianism" from our Chief Hierarch

http://remnantrocor.blogspot.com/2013/04/diocesan-meeting-minutes.html

Minutes

Diocesan Meeting of the Eastern American and New York

and Syracuse and Nikolskiy Dioceses

March 28\16, 2013 

...We strive to continue the traditional teachings and practices of the Church Abroad.  We remain tolerant within measure of various strains within the church. 

Fr. Nikita asked about a recent article questioning the emergence of “Cyprianism.” He added that we speak often about maintaining the traditions of the ROCA, but teachings such as that of Met. Cyprian are new developments and are not part of the Church’s traditions.

The Chairman explained the Church Abroad suspended relations with the Old Calendar Greeks when they were split internally by various divisions.  It was decided at that time to maintain cordial relations with them, but not to interfere in their internal affairs and allow them to resolve their divisions.  Recently, two of the largest Old Calendar groups have begun talks to resolve their differences and unite.  The Chairman added that some of the views held by Abp. Cyprian were held by some of the members of the episcopate and clergy of the Church Abroad at that time.  He noted that the Greeks themselves have moved away from the views of Abp. Cyprian and have returned to a more traditional approach, which is in line with the positions of the Church Abroad.  Those in the ROCA should consider the views of Met. Cyprian as personal opinion...

Is There Grace…?

-from LIVING ORTHODOXY issue # 156 November 2006

Is There Grace…?

(editorial)

We often hear the question posed as to whether or not “there is Grace” — usually in the Moscow Patriarchate.  Wisely, the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia have never spoken with respect to this question.  One of them, Bishop Daniel of Erie, spoke about it — to say that it was a falsely posed and probably unanswerable question.

The Scriptural response would seem to be quite clear.  The Lord said:  “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” [Bear in mind that the Greek word for “wind” is the same as for “Spirit”.]  (John 3:8)

We cannot ever categorically state that the Holy Spirit is not any place — not even outside the confines of what is loosely known as “Christianity”.  Much less can we say that it is not present within the (spiritual) boundaries of what we call the Moscow Patriarchate — or the heretical church of Rome, or any other even marginally “Christian” body.

The question was posed “Is the Grace of God Present in the Soviet Church?” by Prof. I.M. Andreyev in the book of the same title (Monastery Press, Wildwood AB Canada, 2000).  His exhaustive answer reaches a largely (even if not categorically) negative conclusion.

But the question is posed in quite another fashion by Dr. Timothy Clader in the address published in the preceding issue of Living Orthodoxy (#155, XXVI 5, Sept-Oct 2006).  He asks “whether we can say categorically and with God’s authority that the Moscow Patriarchate has grace.”  (p. 21)  To pose the question thus puts it in quite a different light.

We may find the Holy Spirit anywhere, and should always be ready to recognize the “manifest works”, even if in unexpected contexts.  But when it comes to the life of the Church, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Orthodox, we can and must expect far more — that we will find the Holy Spirit present in the Holy Mysteries, without question; that we will find Him present in the legitimate Councils of the Church, despite the sinfulness of the human beings who there serve.

Can we say this of the Church of Rome, even though it has bishops, priests, “sacraments”, and at least in some respects a superficial resemblance to the Orthodox Church.  We cannot.

Could the true Church have said this of those parts of herself which fell into separation in the Aryan heresy, teaching that Jesus the Christ was not in truth the Son of God, but only the greatest of God’s creation?  Decidedly not.

More to the point at the moment, can we say it of the “Russian Orthodox Church”, of which the “Moscow Patriarchate” is the administrative entity — and, at least in principle, the spiritual authority and guide.  Both Prof. Andreyev in his writings a half-century ago and Dr. Clader in the recent past feel compelled by the data to answer in the negative: we cannot be assured of the universal presence of the Holy Spirit, the Grace of God, in this body conceived and nurtured and controlled, until very recently, by an atheistic, God-hating state, which oversaw its every appointment and “consecration”.  It is precisely those who were put in place by the Soviet state who continue to direct the policies of the Moscow Patriarchate, to make decisions as to who shall be appointed and “ordained” to what office.

Can this change?  Yes, by the Grace of God.  Has it changed?  We have no convincing evidence to that effect.

God help us!

MORE SUPER-CORRECT ARROGANCE ON ECAFE

This post submitted by Minas [SIR]

Regarding ROCOR's Anathema against Sergianism

http://remnantrocor.blogspot.com/2013/03/sergianism-anathematized.html

From Euphrosynos Cafe forum:

Re: ROCOR-A: Sergianism Formally Anathematized by Icxypion » 

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9995#p56196

by Icxypion » Sun 7 April 2013 12:11 pm

Yes, it is a good step in the right direction. They may still need to be re-ordained and chrismated, and some whose baptism is recent possibly baptised, since they have been formally in communion for years with ecumenist heretics. If the bishops decide that they must be received back into the TOC with some degree of akriveia then they may find that requirement a bit too much to swallow. However, let us hope and pray for the best. Actually this may be something similar to the move towards a correction within SiR, who are now in dialogue with us to overcome impediments to intercommunion, namely the Cyprianite ecclesiological error.

• • •

– from a private discussion of Icxypion's comment [private, not on the forum]:

Comment from Reader Daniel [ROCOR], as told privately to Minas:

Minas,

Well, a couple of things come to my mind regarding this: This mentality is what our Met. Agafangel labels, 'Mathewite extremism', of which we want no part.

And he is no stranger to the many divisions/arguments  among the Greek Old Calendarists, in fact, he has been personal friends for years, with many of their hierarchs. He knows them all.

Metr. Agafangel had chosen, deliberately, to go with the SIR to consecrate another bishop for us, (& thus putting his church in full inter-communion with the SIR, which the old ROCOR WAS ALSO IN!); he had been previously offered that same service from, his friend, GOC Chrysostomos of Athens (!).

But, he said in one of his blog comments, that he chose to not go with Chrysostomos, because he did not agree with or like, that, 'Mathewite exclusivistic extremism'.

Also, as our learned church-history and canon-law expert, Fr. Victor Dobroff has recently stated in his long & detailed declaration against that ridiculous, ROAC 'Anathema', hurled on both the SIR and our ROCA, ...'that though the SIR's ecclesiology and ours, is not exactly the same, yet it was fully accepted by the Synod of ROCOR Bishops as Orthodox, and so we too also still accept it'.  See previous post:   http://cyprianites.blogspot.com/2013/02/roca-position-on-cyprianism.html

So yes, though some, like myself, HOPE for a real reapproachment of the GOC 'TOC'S', but from what I have read, our ROCA leading clergy and bishops, most likely, do not really care, – or they are afraid, still, of that extremism, (infecting our church), which to their minds, is NOT genuine or sound Orthodox thinking.

(Minas, because our bishops have to contend, every day, with the RUSSIAN lunacy among Russian extremists, plus the on-going Putin and MP persecution, ...so their energies are exhausted and one can hardly expect them to want to get involved with Greek Old Calendar extremists).

WE UNDERSTAND AND LIKE THE SIR!

In fact, such legalistic/latin extremism, is more the calling card of historic schismatics and heretics from the church, over the past ages.  It is more, insanity than anything else.

So... who is a 'True Orthodox Church' member, and who is not???

In our ROCA, we think that we are and so are our sister churches, the Greek SIR, the Romanian and Bulgarian Old Calendarists, etc.  WHICH IS WHY, we honour and highly respect them, and they... us.

BUT!... apparently those special people on Ecafe, do not approve (!)

DARN!!!

Daniel...proud to not be in those deluded and arrogant peoples'... 'TOC'.